What's the Deal with Dialysis?
A conversation about the kidneys and what happens when they fail.
What's the Deal with Dialysis?
Dialysis Revolution: From Treatment to Prevention
What happens when dedicated dialysis professionals step outside the system they've worked in for decades? A powerful shift in perspective that could change everything about kidney health treatment.
After 35+ years working inside dialysis centers, hosts Maurice Carlisle, Ira McAliley, and special guest Paul Terry have emerged with a revolutionary mission: to help people avoid dialysis altogether rather than simply treat end-stage kidney disease. Their journey has led them to challenging industry standards and advocating for patients in ways they couldn't while employed within the system.
This reunion episode marks a turning point as the trio reveals troubling insights about the profit-driven dialysis industry. From outdated nutritional guidance that may actually harm patients to the resistance they faced when suggesting alternatives, their candid conversation exposes gaps between emerging research and standard clinical practices. Maurice shares how connecting patients with physicians willing to provide second opinions has revealed many people being rushed toward dialysis prematurely.
The most surprising revelation? Simple, accessible remedies that can significantly impact kidney health are rarely discussed with patients. "Baking soda is one of the cheapest medications you can purchase," explains Paul, describing how this common household item can help alkalize blood and potentially improve kidney function - information many nephrologists don't routinely share.
Beyond clinical insights, the episode carries a spiritual undercurrent about divine purpose. These advocates believe their decades inside the system prepared them for their current mission: empowering patients, educating dialysis technicians about their true potential to help, and creating community networks that can be replicated nationwide.
Join us as we explore holistic approaches to kidney disease, challenge conventional wisdom, and work toward a future where fewer patients need dialysis. Connect with the hosts at an upcoming Cincinnati patient symposium in September, and stay tuned for future episodes featuring nutritionists, social workers, and patients sharing alternative perspectives on kidney health.
With hosts Maurice Carlisle and Ira McAliley
What's up, beautiful people, this is Ira McAleely here with Maurice Carlisle for another episode of what's the Deal with Dialysis, where we dig into the industry and all the workings going on of kidney dialysis. I'm Ira McAleely and I've been here. We've been doing this for quite some time in my career I've been a filmmaker, prop master also. I facilitate workshops, dialogue with folks and what we're doing is just shedding light on things in injury. And, maurice, tell us a little bit about what you've been up to, because we're regrouping, not revamping, but just kind of taking some time off to kind of experience life things. And now we're coming back stronger and better.
Maurice:Yeah, thank you, man. So we're bringing some new ideas to the podcast. A lot of things have happened. A lot of research has taken place. A lot of things have happened, a lot of research has taken place, a lot of things have changed, and so we wanted to come back with different mindsets. Totally change it really totally changed how we see things. I no longer work in a dialysis center any longer. I've, you know, went away from that and you know I want to help people outside the center before they ever even get there, and so I've been doing some things in the community. I've been attached to NKF for some symposiums, just opened my eyes to a lot of things. I've met nutritionists, social workers, and so the dynamics of dialysis has changed a whole lot, and so we want to pass on some of that good information to people and help them navigate, you know, their health and their kidney care.
Ira:All right. So today we have a special guest, the current guest, our good buddy Paul Terry, who we'll bring back right after our little intro.
Paul:Stay tuned. Good morning, all right, we're back.
Ira:There we are In the house. What's up, man? All right. How are back there. We are, paul Terry, in the house. What's up, man, all right? How are you guys doing?
Ira:Good man, we are well. We are well Trying to be in the world of wellness here. What's the deal with dialysis? And thank you for being here. Yeah, yeah, as Maurice just said, like he's been, he elevated to a new level in my in terms of, you know, working with kidney dialysis and and being part of the cause of, you know, awareness and empowering people to to be advocates for themselves and, you know, in implanting them deeper in the industry to be able to affect change in a positive way. So, paul, give us kind of an intro to what you've been up to, because I know your world shifted a little bit. Let us know what's happening, definitely.
Paul:Well, after a 35-year career in dialysis, starting with reuse and going all the way to the biomed department, I have have shifted, as you just made mention of. I still own my. I still own my biomedical services company, um, which is a contractor company, so I still provide primarily technical support, but I'm really not in the clinic as as much as I used to be um. As a matter of fact, my entire life has shifted towards healthy and wealthy, which is I'm not trying to plug my brand right there, but I am trying to plug my brand you should be, let them know.
Paul:like we said, we spent a lot of years putting people on dialysis. I spent 35 years putting people on dialysis. The next 35 years, my primary focus will be to get them off of dialysis and, like Maurice's objective has been, is to educate people so that if you ultimately end up on dialysis anyway, you'll know that you'll be able to put it off as long as possible by adhering to some of the things that we've learned over the course of our careers Things that will actually improve kidney function, things that will delay dialysis, things that will improve overall health and basically eliminate some of the symptoms with some of the syndromes, some of the metabolic syndromes associated that ultimately lead to dialysis. So we've spent a lot of time focusing and educating ourselves and our immediate surroundings on these things, so that's where the bulk of my time has been spent. Regarding the medical field as a whole, Got it.
Ira:And so, maurice, you know we've talked outside of this space just about you've been discovering some of the people that you've been meeting and how your perspective has changed a little bit in terms of how you can be effective and be. You know the path forward, if you will. So you know, you have some points of what you want to do, what we're going to talk about, basically, if we were to call this a second season of what to deal with dialysis Basically, if we were to call this a second season of what to deal with dialysis.
Ira:We're going to be going deeper to kind of show more perspectives of the issue so that everybody gets a more well-rounded idea of what's going on. So tell us what you've been up to?
Maurice:Yeah, absolutely. And I want to make mention about Paul. I mean, paul is together with me and you. He has been a catalyst for this whole thing. I mean, when we came up with the idea of a podcast, of even doing a podcast, paul was a part of that process and has always been a part of the process. I've always been bouncing stuff off of Paul and you, you, uh, behind the scenes and so, uh, paul is a catalyst as well for this, and I just want to thank him for indulging me man, like I've been calling him, blowing his phone up for years and we've been going back and forth and this is a product of those conversations. I mean literally a product, and we've even even talked as early as a couple of days ago about what this podcast, what this episode would be about, and how it's changed us being outside of the center. Like he mentioned, we no longer work in the center per se. We still have contacts to the center, we still know people who do, but it gave us a different perspective.
Maurice:Um, no, we tried to do as much as we could do within the center hierarchy. Uh, what we realized is is that, um, to really affect change? Uh, it's very difficult to affect change when you're inside the center, when you are an employee of the people who may or may not necessarily want change, um, and so that puts a lot of pressure on you. It creates a lot of animosity within the center. There can be retaliation within the center because of that, and so, and particularly in my case, I worked in a center with people who are in my community, most of which I knew before I was ever a technician, and so that creates, uh, some hierarchy issues as well, because these people are looking to me to help them, and I mean, they're members of my church, friends of my parents, um, people who I I went to school with their kids Uh, some of those little ladies took me to football practice, their husbands to football practice, you know. And so for them to come in the center and then to be treated like they're just another person in the center was very difficult for me to do, and I don't think I was there to do that. I was there to give them as much. You know I was able to give love back to people who have been giving me love all my life. You know I was able to give love back to people who have been giving me love all my life. Many of those people came in and somebody said I heard a lady yell across the center, recy. I said Recy, like nobody knows me as Recy, like who's calling me. And this lady's, like you know, my mom's best friend's in the center and she's, you know, going to have to have dialysis, and so I know there's technicians out there somewhere who have similar experiences and we want to get them on our show and talk to them about their experiences in the center as well, because that's a different dynamic. You know, that's just not like going to your job and just like doing something Right, that is. You know there are relationships that are already built, and so we want to talk about those relationships as we move forward in this.
Maurice:The other thing is is that there's new research out there, and so you know I found out that there are nutritionists out there who are talking about organic diets for dialysis patients, which was almost unheard of because of the potassium in fruits that they would keep patients away from potassium, so they didn't want them to eat fruit. There's also this idea that you know we have dialysis patients eat meat. At high levels of meat, well, that meat turns into acid and that makes their blood acidic, and that's what they are acidic when they're on dialysis, and so that's counterproductive to what dialysis patients need. And so this research is coming out now, and now we're seeing the centers are still doing it. I mean, it seems like they haven't moved over to this new research, and so I've met some nutritionists that we're going to have on the show and they're going to talk about some of this new research that's out there so that we can help patients and their families navigate this a lot better.
Maurice:Some other things that's happened in my community is that there are patients who are coming to me and they're saying, hey, my doctor told me I need dialysis, and I'm like, ok, ok, well then let's get a second opinion on that, and so I've been utilizing a doctor that's in my community to give them a second opinion. What we're finding out is is that many of those people don't need to go on dialysis right yet, and so getting a second opinion can change the dynamic of what you believe is happening. I've already experienced pushback from that. I've already experienced pushback from that. So the doctor that I've been sending them to for second opinions has decided that, hey, if they come from this community, they don't need a referral.
Maurice:So now we are actually stopping the pushback. We've actually put in place a way where these patients can get referral, I mean, they can see somebody for a second opinion without needing to go through this whole referral process, which is the catalyst for this pushback. And so these are just a few things that we want to share in upcoming episodes and we want to give this to you know. Once we consider we figure out what that program looks like between the three of us, we want to give that program to communities all over the country so that they can duplicate what we've done here and they can see some of the results that we're seeing. So that's just touching on where we're headed.
Paul:Just a little bit about that. Good things, good news, that's good.
Ira:So yeah, paul, where do you see you know things we can do, like topics that we can touch on from your perspective? What is it that you know where can do like topics that we can touch on from your perspective? But is it that you know where should we go with this?
Paul:okay, let me just chime in on some points that maurice made. Because, like he said, you a lot of dialysis, patients are very low in protein, which you know destroys muscle mass, you know, and and overall not healthy to have low protein levels. And so what the dieticians, particularly renal dieticians, are emphasizing to patients is to consume more and more meat. But, like he just said, that meat will actually increase your creatinine levels, which is a spinoff of cell metabolism. I mean, it's the byproduct of cell metabolism, that meat and, like I said, it creates acid.
Paul:A lot of people may experience or develop gout as a result of consuming a lot of meat, especially red meat. We all know that red meat is not the most healthy meat to consume for anybody, especially diastasis patients. So I'm going to tell you like this, ultimately, moving forward, patients are going to find out the hard way that one of the best things that you can do to alleviate the acid content in your body. We tell them all the time. It's like if you consume baking soda and water it will alkalize your blood system, which will lower your acid levels.
Paul:I don't know if people have the strength of character to fast, but I can tell you personally, fasting will cure just about any ailment that the body suffers from. The problem is that requires a level of discipline that most dialysis patients have yet to achieve. So, like he said, we're looking at it as, after having been employed for all of these years in dialysis, now we're coming into this as a holistic perspective, which is counter counter. It's contrary to what they're teaching in the industry Because, like you said, dialysis is a for profit industry. It's not, then I don't, we don't know very many doctors who have a high level of curing or reversing dialysis Once a patient gets to the end, which is that stage five, end stage.
Maurice:Yeah, that stage five Once a patient gets on dialysis.
Paul:Very few people actually ever recover. I've known a few, but not that many. Most of the ones that recover they either went somewhere else and they sought out, you know, a treatment that was not FDA approved Mexico, tijuana or they went to some reservation and had some Indian people, or they got chelation. There's a host of different treatments that are not FDA approved and they're not popular. Because if you like he just said, if you go into a clinic, tell somebody listen, brock, I can do chelation. We can do A, b, c and D. We can either lower your incidences, we can lower the amount of times you have to go to the house, or we can get you off the house. You're not going to be popular and you're going to get some flat. You're going to definitely get some flat. Yeah, you're going to become the enemy of the state of the house.
Maurice:And we've seen it. I mean, we've seen the pushback, I've experienced the pushback, paul has experienced the pushback. Ultimately, that pushback is probably why we're not in the center today, if I be right. If we had to put a moment of time on it, if we had to say what was the reason that we spent 30 odd years in the center and we're not in there today.
Paul:We bucked the system. We always did. That's why I said we started out putting people on dialysis, but moving forward, we're ultimately going to end up taking people, removing people from that. That's right. It's what we recommend. And, once again, like we always say, baking soda is like the cheapest. That's one of the cheapest medications that you can purchase.
Maurice:That's right and it doesn't. That's one of the cheapest medications that you can purchase, that I tell all the patients to take a table. You know, before they're on dialysis I'm telling look, take a tablespoon of baking soda, put in an 8 ounce glass of water, mix it up in the morning and drink that. So you know people gonna question that. They're like why would I do that? So one of the ladies that I grew up with her son. He came to me. He said they're telling my mom she needs to go on dialysis. I said, hey, get a second opinion. He goes down to the second opinion. He says to the doctor that I know, hey, man, marisa's telling my mom to do that. And the doctor tells him hey, man, you'd be surprised how much that can help kidney function. And so you know it just tells him. He went back to the doctor that he had before and he said why didn't you tell me this? Right, the doctor didn't have an answer.
Ira:Yeah, I mean from where I stand in my spiritual world and you know Paul talking about holistic medicine, I think that is. You know, that's the revolution. That's not televised right.
Ira:So there's a whole host of people that are working in indigenous medicine, plant medicine, um, you know the stuff. Like we used to brush our teeth with baking soda, right. So now you're seeing that come around, you like, you start to see that on like, instagram posts of, like how to do the natural things that you know our people have known how to do forever. You know what I mean. But like the, the, the money, people like the people that are capitalizing on poor folks and people who just don't understand exactly, like have industries around taking those natural things out, like there's not much natural about our living, especially in this country at this point. So myself, I'm going to costa rica to learn more, um, I set up a space where I can bring people to learn more, um, and that's, I think, in the future.
Ira:What's the deal with dialysis is being able to, you know, run some retreats and try to to fight from the outside, um, where they can't get us and they can't stop us and they can't right.
Ira:You know, you know, and, and to me it's divine that you guys have been in the system to understand the system, to be able to correct the system right, and so you guys are coming into your own self-realization, if you will, of purpose. Right. It's, like you know, in my world right now, like a lot of the things that I've done and didn't really understand why I was doing them. The wisdom of our age is understanding that these are the things that have been put in our pathway to get us to where we are and to get us where we're going. All right, well, yeah, so that's what we're up to, that's the newness that's coming to us to deal with dialysis. So I want to invite people to stay tuned. I don't want to give away too much of it. I think we're going to, like you guys, have anything that you want to say at this moment, let's do it.
Paul:I want to go to costa rica and I want to, and I want to. I want to reiterate what you just said. We need you guys to participate, to spread this message out there because, like you just alluded to, basically health care is going to go back to the original, its original formation, which is natural, holistic, you can call it which doctor, you call the food, you call whatever you want to call it, but it's ultimately going to go back to its roots, which were a lot more effective eating things out of your yard. You know, people are going to start back raising their own livestock. They're going to raise their own chicken, they're going to eat natural eggs that they fed to their chickens. They're not going to be going to the grocery store and that's. That's like you say. You get a kickback from the industry, you get a kickback from pharmaceuticals when you start to go against the grain, as it were.
Maurice:Well, I want to say this you know, you talked about how we came to a point where we understood why we were there, and me and Paul talk about our time. We used to say God is in the building Right, and so we didn't know that that's Well. Let's go back to this. Let me just give you a little bit of background. Me and Paul went to college together. So this is crazy. So, college together. I end up leaving California, coming to Ohio. Paul is leaving college as well, going back home to San Bernardino. We, we, we reconnect, and we both working in dialysis. Right, you can't make this up. We both working in the same field, we find out. We the same person.
Maurice:It's all divine, it's all divine. You see what I mean.
Ira:Say it again Ira, it's all divine, there's no coincidences here, there ain't no coincidences.
Ira:We're working in the same space. We just have to release, let go and believe trust and believe that it's already done. It's already done, it's already done, that's right. And the pieces keep falling into place. I see it as a big puzzle man. Every day I get a piece of the puzzle. It just becomes clear, the image becomes clearer and clearer. There's a lot of things that happen in our society that we just can't participate in because the vibration is just not right and real.
Maurice:That's just a little bit of background about me and Paul. That's how we ended up both in this dialysis center. We had these conversations for years and we, we, we got pushed back for years, for years and we kept going back because we had a job. I mean, we had work to do. It wasn't a job for us, it was divine work. And when you're doing divine work and all these technicians don't know, but they're doing divine work, they're there for a reason. We need to tell them why they're there. They don't know.
Ira:They think they're there to get a paycheck.
Maurice:That ain't what they're there for, and they don't know it. And so we want to be advocates for them, we want to empower them, and what's the deal with dialysis is that thing that we're going to use to do that for these technicians? Being a technician is an art. It's an art form. Man. They don't even know the art form yet. But we're going to express these things to them and they're going to be anew once they realize what work they really are there to do.
Ira:Of course, so I invite people to keep coming back. There's new energy. I'm sure you can tell if you've been here before. It'll never be the same. So we're on a mission, y'all, and we're doing the do. Like you know, dialysis has come through my life, my world, my sister yeah, you know, my sister will be a reoccurring character, because she's a character for sure. But, but, but, and we'll just use and no buts, and, like I said, it's all divine and we're going to just claim it, we're going to trust and believe that we are doing what's necessary to be done. So, with that, we're going to say peace to you all. Thank you.
Paul:Thank you for having me. I appreciate this, I really do. Thank you for having me. I appreciate this. I really appreciate the platform and the opportunity to share with some of what we've known because I've been doing. I have done that for 35 years, but I'm still 36, going on 36 years, absolutely same with you because you're part of the inc. You're part of nasty kidney national kidney foundation. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, actively right yeah, actively, yeah.
Maurice:Kimmy Foundation yes, yes, yeah, actively. Right, yeah, actively, yeah. They have me sitting on some of the boards with them and actually in September, me and Ira and you will be at a booth at a patient symposium in the Cincinnati area. So if you're watching from Cincinnati, you can come and see us in the flesh in September.
Paul:Look, ira, stay tuned. We don't want you to miss nothing. Stay tuned, that's right, stay tuned.
Ira:We don't want you to miss nothing. Stay tuned, that's right.
Maurice:The next episode. That's right.
Paul:I need to post this episode. Y'all, make sure y'all shoot me this today. We will we will With that.
Ira:Just take care of yourself. Love yourself. Yes, be your authentic self. Just know that. Wellness holistic wellness. Be an advocate for yourself. Yes, be your authentic self. That's right. Just another wellness, holistic wellness, like be an advocate for yourself and stick with us, we'll help you through. Yeah, more is coming All right.
Paul:Be well, be well. Peace and blessings y'all. Peace and blessings. Yes, sir, peace and blessings. Signing out.